<<< SHAVE::DECUS:[DECUSERVE]PRO_300_SERIES.NOTE;1 >>> -< PRO_300_series >- ================================================================================ Note 1.0 Welcome to the PRO_300_series conference No replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 4 lines 4-MAY-1987 10:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The purpose of this conference is to provide a forum for Professional 300 series owners/users to exchange ideas, problems, hardware/software hints, etc. as they relate to the PRO.  ================================================================================ Note 2.0 This topic reserved for future internal directory No replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 2 lines 4-MAY-1987 10:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most current internal directory for this conference will be posted as responses to this topic.  ================================================================================ Note 3.0 This topic reserved for future use by the moderator No replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 2 lines 4-MAY-1987 10:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most current information concerning moderation will be posted as responses to this topic.  ================================================================================ Note 4.0 This topic reserved for future use by the moderator No replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 1 line 4-MAY-1987 10:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional note for moderators  ================================================================================ Note 5.0 Postscript on a PRO 1 reply EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 11 lines 6-JUN-1987 08:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The PRO offers some nice graphics capability. However, as support for the system wains at DEC, there will be devices slip by that have a legitemate place in the PRO arena. The LN03(R) Postscript printer is one of those that may never "see the light of day" on the PRO. All is not lost, however. If seems reasonable to me to at least provide some sort of connection for the LN03R to the PRO via GIDIS file conversion. Do you know what the internal format of a GIDIS file looks like? Gary ================================================================================ Note 5.1 Postscript on a PRO 1 of 1 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 25 lines 9-JUL-1987 01:49 -< Luser-written GIDIS Interpretors >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree, support for the LN03R would be a nice thing to add to P/OS. At least in concept, adding support for a new device is relatively easy, since everything in the Klingon Empire speaks GIDIS, and therefore all you need to do is write a GIDIS to device translator and you are in business. Translators or interpretors are already provided to LVP16, LA100/LA210/LA50, LN03, etc. The format of a GIDIS file is quite well documented in the 3.0 tool kit manual set - the GIDIS manual and the VDM manual tell yo everything you would ever want to know about the format of VDMs (virtual device metafiles) that the system can throw at you, and the GIDIS commands that such a file can contain. Sadly, the one piece of information needed to pull this off is how to interface such a interpretor to the print spooling system on P/OS. In other words, if you write a program that reads VDM/GIDIS and barfs out appropriate escape sequences/postscript commands to make the output device print the desired text and graphics, how do you interface it to the rest of the world? Presumably, the spooling system sends it message packets telling it a file to print, and something needs to be said to the spooling system to get it to call your interpretor, but this is never made clear in the 3.0 tool kit documentation. Hopefully, the 3.2 tool kit coming soon to a Pro near you will clarify this..... If not, maybe we can beat up on P/OS development and get a newsletter article for the PC Sig newsletter on how to interface. Jerry Ethington  ================================================================================ Note 6.0 PRO/Comm , et. al. 2 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 132 lines 1-JUL-1987 09:55 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following notes have been moved from the ERRORS conference. Gary ================================================================================ Note 12.13 DCL trouble 13 of 24 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 16 lines 21-JUN-1987 15:49 -< Problems with PCs >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You will have noticed that, when you use a Rainbow by itself or with most emulation packages, you get a VT102 equivalent: this means that the VT220 keys (Find, Select, Do, Next Screen) will not work. Only packages that do true VT220 emulation (rather than the built-in VT102 emulation) will get you the extra keys. I see something similar: I use a PRO which, in PRO mode, does do VT220 emulation including the extra keys. However, I think Notes doesn't properly recognize a PRO as being a VT220 equivalent as I don't get the extra keys unless I execute a local command to turn them on. VMS does know that a PRO does the same as a VT220/VT240 but gives it a separate terminal type. Has anyone else seen this? Does a VT220/VT240 get the extra keys by default when a SET TERM/INQ has set the terminal to the correct terminal type? ================================================================================ Note 12.14 DCL trouble 14 of 24 EISNER::HYDE "Mark Hyde" 9 lines 22-JUN-1987 07:59 -< PRO works great for me >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bart, What version of P/OS and PRO/Comm are you using? I almost always use a PRO as my DECUServe terminal and get VT220 mode just fine. I'm using P/OS V3.0 and PRO/Comm V3.0. Which 'extra keys' specifically are you referring to? mark ================================================================================ Note 12.15 DCL trouble 15 of 24 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 7 lines 22-JUN-1987 18:52 -< My version of P/OS is older >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I use P/OS 2.0 and PRO/Comm 2.0 The "extra keys" are the keys not found on a VT220: The extra keypad labeled Find, Insert Here, Remove, Select, etc, and the top row (F5 through F20). I can switch them on manually but they are not activated by notes the way the basic keypad (0 through 9 and PF1 to PF4) are. ================================================================================ Note 12.16 DCL trouble 16 of 24 EISNER::HYDE "Mark Hyde" 7 lines 23-JUN-1987 08:40 -< that's the problem >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's the version that you are using. PRO/Comm 2.0 wasn't a 'real' 220 emulation. It identified as 200_series but behaved as you describe. It wasn't till version 3.0 that we had 'real' 200 series emulation. mark 'PRO/Comm Support in a former life' ================================================================================ Note 12.17 DCL trouble 17 of 24 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 15 lines 23-JUN-1987 14:08 -< Another dissatisfied DEC customer >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > It identified as 200_series but behaved as you describe. Actually it identifies itself as a PRO_series, but I know what you mean. I'm still very upset that ReGIS emulation only works in communication mode and not "locally", and that it doesn't even really emulate a VT125 in communication mode (won't upload SIXEL output to the Comm. line, for example). Like the vast majority of PRO users, I never went to 3.0: it just didn't seem worth while spending a lot of money to buy all new software, with no trade in or upgrade allowance, just to use more disk space. The improvements appear to be trivial, at best, and it's not worth sinking more mony into a PRO. You are about the only person I know who is using 3.0 ================================================================================ Note 12.18 DCL trouble 18 of 24 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 9 lines 24-JUN-1987 10:50 -< Broadening your horizons >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> worth sinking more mony into a PRO. You are about the only person I >> know who is using 3.0 Based on the letters that I get as the PC SIG Newsletter Editor (PRO specific), I would say that about half of the PRO community has opted to upgrade to P/OS v3. I run BOTH v2 and v3 on separate systems. Gary ================================================================================ Note 12.19 DCL trouble 19 of 24 EISNER::COVERT "John Covert" 5 lines 25-JUN-1987 00:55 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And then there are diehards like me, sitting at home here typing on a PRO that's still running the pre-pre-field test, the first version of P/OS that would even boot. /john ================================================================================ Note 12.20 DCL trouble 20 of 24 EISNER::TRAYSER "C J "Buck" Trayser - Notes Addict!" 0 lines 25-JUN-1987 01:33 -< I still have my FT2 doc for P/OS V1.0...Sigh! >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Note 12.22 DCL trouble 22 of 24 EISNER::MCCARTHY 5 lines 30-JUN-1987 13:50 -< P/OS?? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Funny, I have no trouble with my PRO at all. But, then again, I'm running Micro/RSX V3.0. -Brian ================================================================================ Note 6.1 PRO/Comm , et. al. 1 of 2 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 40 lines 9-JUL-1987 02:22 -< Pro Comm Keypads >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bart: Pre-3.0 versions of Pro/Comm emulated sort of a VT150; they could do some things that VT1xx terminals couldn't, but not everything that a VT2xx could. The current release of Pro/Comm does give a reasonably complete VT241 emulation, with all keys functional (even with down line loadable key definitions), sixel graphics to your printer support, etc. I highly recommend going to 3.x; there are a HUGE number of cool new features, which many people are not aware of. If you really want a detailed rundown on 3.x features, I suspect we should start a separate note on the subject. As far as getting trade-in or upgrade allowances to make upgrading more economical, a little known fact is that indeed you DO get upgrade discounts. How to get P/OS software (cheap): Plan A: Since you are already a licensed owner of P/OS software and Pro/Comm, you are eligible to buy current releases at the upgrade price instead of the full list price. Upgrades are in the catalogs as the same part number as the normal item, but with an "-HZ" instead of "-AZ"; in other words, you are getting an H kit. Typically, depending on the specific Pro software product, this saves anywhere from 40% to 60%. Plan B: Since you frequently attend Decus symposia, you can roll into the PSG (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) Bookstore in the exhibit hall and pick up P/OS software like P/OS V3.1 (3.2 by Anaheim), Tool Kit, and Pro Comm or Synergy (which includes Pro Comm, Prose-Plus word processing/graphics editor, Calendar, File Services, Data Manager, Graph, Calculator, and Spreadsheet) at discounts of about 50-60%. With either plan, the cost of upgrading to current versions is probably a lot less than you had anticipated; even if you need only a few of the features of P/OS V3.x and Pro Comm 3.x, it might make the upgrade a much more attractive proposition. Jerry Ethington ================================================================================ Note 6.2 PRO/Comm , et. al. 2 of 2 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 36 lines 9-JUL-1987 19:28 -< Interesting, sort of. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Pre-3.0 versions of Pro/Comm emulated sort of a VT150; they could > do some things that VT1xx terminals couldn't, but not everything > that a VT2xx could. If I manually switch keys (the F5), I can get the top row to work. I rarely bother, though. I've never needed downloaded characters. > I highly recommend going to 3.x; there are a HUGE number of cool > new features, which many people are not aware of. Maybe, but so what. I don't have an LN03, LA75, etc., so I don't need the new device support. I don't really care much about an upgrade to PRO/Comm, because terminal emulation works well enough, and file transfer doesn't work at all. Pro/Host Communications, never worked very well, and most systems don't have it anyway. I use Kermit when I have to stransfer files. I can spawn the tool kit on TT2: if I want to, but rarely use two terminals except on rare occations, and then mostly just to run RMDEMO on the second terminal which I can do by redirecting output without spawaning the tool kit. I rarely use the window systems, so improvements there don't help me. I am concerned about disk space, and will have less of it under 3.x Most of what I do is in the tool kit with DECUS or other RSX software, and for that 2.0 is fine. The information about discounts is interesting. However, I've been in the bookstore during Symposia, and have looked at the prices on the PRO software, and didn't think the prices were all that great. Bottom line: it just isn't worth investing money into my home PRO. I don't need an "official" announcement to know it's abandoned by DEC, and I already have the software (like Fortran and DTR) I need. Any new software I want (like a Basic interpretor, Runoff, "C", etc.) I get from DECUS or write myself.  ================================================================================ Note 7.0 P/OS LA75/LN03 Plus Update No replies EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 28 lines 9-JUL-1987 02:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At the Nashville DECUS Sympoium in May, P/OS Engineering distributed (informally) an update to P/OS V3.1 which adds support for LA75 and LN03-Plus printers. The update is on 2 RX50 floppies, and installs much as the P/OS V3.1 update installs on top of V3.0 - you delete the print queues, boot the update floppies (a stand alone update system), follow the instructions on the screen, then reboot the Winchester and add you print queues back. For anyone who did not attend the Nashville symposium, I think the Atlanta telephone support center may give copies to contract customers. For anyone who is not on contract, you can get a copy from someone like myself who did go to Nashville. If you would like to get a copy from me, all I ask is that you send me 2 RX50 preformatted floppies, a note saying what you want, and return label and postage. Anything sent to me not meeting these rules will be cheerfully regarded as a generous donation to foster the advancement of superior Klingon technology. My address: Jerry Ethington Prolifix, Inc. 245 Hawkeegan Drive Frankfort KY 40601 I installed the update as soon as I returned from Decus and tried an LN03 Plus, and had no problems at all with either the update or the added functionality. Haven't tried an LA75 yet - I don't know anyone who has one. Jerry Ethington  ================================================================================ Note 8.0 I need "obsolete" software 14 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 7 lines 11-JUL-1987 07:42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am about to get a PRO-380. Do you have a copy of P/OS v2.0A (Note the "A" in the version number) available that I could buy, trade, whatever? I don't really want to use P/OS v3 on it and DEC won't/can't provide me a copy of anything besides the OS currently shipping. Gary ================================================================================ Note 8.1 I need "obsolete" software 1 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 15 lines 11-JUL-1987 18:32 -< You can't sell PRO software >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >I am about to get a PRO-380. Do you have a copy of P/OS v2.0A I feel obligated to point out DEC's licencing policy on PCs, which is exactly the opposite from all other systems. ALL software (operating system and layered products) bought for a PC go with it when it is sold. There are never any extra copies of a product: you either get it from DEC, or you get what comes with a used machine. If you are buying a used machine, make sure you get all of the software which was sold for it (unfortunately, most, if not all, of the equipment brokers don't transfer the software like they are supposed to). If you are buying a new machine, you are going to have to accept what DEC sells you, or work "under the table". ================================================================================ Note 8.2 I need "obsolete" software 2 of 14 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 20 lines 13-JUL-1987 10:01 -< "Under-the-table?" >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I feel obligated to point out DEC's licencing policy on PCs, which is > exactly the opposite from all other systems. ALL software (operating > system and layered products) bought for a PC go with it when it is sold. > There are never any extra copies of a product: you either get it from > DEC, or you get what comes with a used machine. I have no problem buying software from DEC, but unlike the VAX and PDP software lines, the PC policy is: Once a new version is shipping, the previous one(s) are NOT AVAILABLE. Now, since I can't get the S/W I need from DEC, I have to look elsewhere. Also, I suspect that if the licensing policy that DEC has were to be challenged in court, the ruling would be "Restraint-of-trade" since what I want, they won't sell, but they won't let me get it from someone else. Which leads me back to the original request: Do you have P/OS v2.0A? Gary ================================================================================ Note 8.3 I need "obsolete" software 3 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 6 lines 13-JUL-1987 19:02 -< I sort of have 2.0 >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have P/OS 2.0 and I think it's 2.0A. But I don't have a "real" kit" I have what was on the machine when I bought it used, but the dealer shortchanged me, and it did not come with the manuals or original distribution kit. ================================================================================ Note 8.4 I need "obsolete" software 4 of 14 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 17 lines 14-JUL-1987 09:53 -< Its easy to tell a 2.0a system >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have P/OS 2.0 and I think it's 2.0A. There is a quick way to tell if it is 2.0A. When the system boots up and the "Main Menu" appears, the title line will read 2.0A rather than 2.0. As for documentation, I don't care about that. 2.0 and 2.0a are identical in all respects except for the non-visible changes to support the 380 and RD52. Also, all I really want is the first 4 diskettes, not the complete set. BUT . . . I HAVE to have a set of diskettes that will actually install a system. Gary ================================================================================ Note 8.5 I need "obsolete" software 5 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 8 lines 14-JUL-1987 20:32 -< Main Menu? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >There is a quick way to tell if it is 2.0A. When the system boots up >and the "Main Menu" appears, the title line will read 2.0A rather >than 2.0. Who looks at the main menu? I have my system set to go directly into the tool kit. ================================================================================ Note 8.6 I need "obsolete" software 6 of 14 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 12 lines 15-JUL-1987 09:58 -< Is it done with mirrors? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Who looks at the main menu? I have my system set to go directly > into the tool kit. Sounds like a "hack" to me. Did you modify the startup task? As far as I can tell, avoiding the Main Menu was formally supported with P/OS v3, but not before. I will see if I can find out if the Logical "POS$VER" gives any clue about the version level. Gary ================================================================================ Note 8.7 I need "obsolete" software 7 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 9 lines 15-JUL-1987 19:27 -< It's documented somewhere >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -< Is it done with mirrors? >- No, it's done with a file called FIRSTAPPL.PTR (or something like that) which has the name of the directory of the application you want P/OS to go into when you boot the system. It can be any P/OS application, and in my case it's the tool kit. It is a documented, but apparently not well known feature of P/OS. I can, of course, press the EXIT key and go back to the menues if I ever want to. ================================================================================ Note 8.8 I need "obsolete" software 8 of 14 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 10 lines 16-JUL-1987 00:26 -< Moth Eaten Software >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary, I've still got an official copy lying around. Send me blank floppies and I'll roll you off a copy. I don't think anyone cares if a licensed user, which as an owner of P/OS version x.x you are, grabs an OLD copy of software they are licensed for - clearly they would like to get money, and rightfully so, for a newer version than the one you are licensed for (an upgrade), but I don't think they would care to charge for a downgrade. Jerry ================================================================================ Note 8.9 I need "obsolete" software 9 of 14 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 12 lines 18-JUL-1987 10:20 -< Sounds like Vaporware to me . . . >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > No, it's done with a file called FIRSTAPPL.PTR (or something > like that) which has the name of the directory of the application you > want P/OS to go into when you boot the system. It can be any P/OS > application, and in my case it's the tool kit. It is a documented, but > apparently not well known feature of P/OS. I've looked EVERYWHERE I can think of to find the documentation you mention. Can you be more specific? Gary ================================================================================ Note 8.10 I need "obsolete" software 10 of 14 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 15 lines 20-JUL-1987 00:31 -< A Kludge for All Seasons >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He's right; long, long ago when I was using P/OS 2.0, I found the note and used the method to fire up Tool Kit when the system booted. If I recall correctly, it is mentioned in the first chapter or two of the old 2.0 Tool Kit reference manual or User's Guide, one or the other. The deal was, you create LB:[ZZSYS]FIRSTAPPL.PTR, which contains exactly one line - the directory name where the .INS file lives, without brackets, and padded on the right if necessary to a length of 9 characters. Not necessary on 3.0 or later systems; you can set up an application to start at login time on an account's user environment services menu, and you can define an account to be automatically logged into at boot time via system environment services, account management, so the old somewhat nasty functionality is no longer needed. Jerry ================================================================================ Note 8.11 I need "obsolete" software 11 of 14 EISNER::HYDE "Mark Hyde" 7 lines 21-JUL-1987 15:23 -< beware of FIRSTAPPL.PTR >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just beware that on V2.0 systems, if you screw up FIRSTAPPL.PTR, (i.e spell the directory name wrong), your system is sunk. A fouled up FIRSTAPPL.PTR renders the PRO unbootable. mark 'former P/OS hack' ================================================================================ Note 8.12 I need "obsolete" software 12 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 6 lines 21-JUL-1987 19:57 -< Gosh, it worked for me >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Just beware that on V2.0 systems, if you screw up FIRSTAPPL.PTR, > (i.e spell the directory name wrong), your system is sunk. Odd: I've found that if it was spelled wrong, it just didn't do anything with it and went into the normal main menu. ================================================================================ Note 8.13 I need "obsolete" software 13 of 14 EISNER::HYDE "Mark Hyde" 5 lines 22-JUL-1987 12:38 -< Well, I did say 'former' >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Could be a memory failure on my part. Maybe it was in V1.7 that is was dangerous and it got fixed in V2.0 to be less so. mark ================================================================================ Note 8.14 I need "obsolete" software 14 of 14 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 7 lines 4-NOV-1988 09:24 -< Anyone have the Tek 4014 emulator? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the subject of "obsolete" software for the PRO: does anyone have a copy of the Tektronix 4014 terminal emulator which used to be available for the PRO? It was sold by DEC, but was probably written by a third party vendor. I think it was discontinued before P/OS went to 3.0, but that's O.K. as I still run 2.0. I would like to be able to do occasional Tek graphics on my PRO if it won't cost too much.  ================================================================================ Note 9.0 P/OS V3.x TFEA$ Bug Fix No replies EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 91 lines 16-JUL-1987 01:05 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Users of P/OS V3.0 and V3.1 systems may be interested in the following article which I have submitted for publication to the PC SIG newsletter. Jerry Ethington P/OS V3.0/3.1 Bug - TFEA$ Directive Doesn't Work Jerry Ethington, Prolifix, Inc., Frankfort, KY Developers and programmers utilizing some of the many new features present on P/OS version 3 systems may have noticed a very useful new directive, TFEA$ - the Task Feature directive. TFEA$ can return important information to a task about itself - whether it was linked for fast mapping (another new version 3 directive), whether it is privileged, whether it was linked with memory resident overlays, and many other pieces of information from the status words T.ST2, T.ST3, and T.ST4 in its own task control block (TCB). The first thing I tried to use TFEA$ for was to determine whether the task had been linked with fast mapping support, so at run time I could dynamically decide to use the new fast map directive or, on pre-version 3 systems, I could fall back to the much slower MAP$ directive to remap dynamic regions for an application. I quickly discovered, however, that TFEA$ did not work as documented, or in fact work at all. According to the documentation, the directive status word ($DSW) should return one of four possible values; IS.CLR, indicating the feature being tested is NOT present; IS.SET, indicating the feature being tested IS present; and the two standard return codes, IE.ADP and IE.SDP, respectively indicating that the DPB is out of the issuing task's address space or that the DPB size or DIC are invalid. Instead, testing discovered that whether or not the specified feature was enabled, an error code of IE.ITS (inconsistent task state) was ALWAYS returned, making the directive useless. Fortunately, the all too limited source microfiche supplied with the P/OS version 3.0 Tool Kit contained the code involved, and through the miracles of superior Klingon technology I was able to locate and solve the problem. I am distributing the correction for P/OS V3.0 and V3.1 to other PRO users and developers so they may take advantage of this new functionality before the official correction from DEC appears in the future release of P/OS V3.2. To correct the problem, you must create the following file and use the ZAP utility supplied with the Tool Kit to apply the correction to the P/OS system image. You must be logged in as a privileged user and, in PRO/Clusters, you must be logged on local at the file server system. The file name given in the first line will depend upon whether or not you are using the PRO/Cluster functionality added in P/OS V3.0. ALL users must apply the correction file to LB:[ZZSYS]POS.SYS, but users of Pro/Clusters must ALSO apply it to the file server system image, LB:[ZZSYS]POSFS.SYS, so they will need to make two files and apply both of them with ZAP. Create the correction file or files, enter the Tool Kit and issue the command "RUN $ZAP". ZAP will prompt with "ZAP>", and you enter the name of the file you created as an indirect command file. For example, if you create the correction file with the name TFEA.ZAP, the dialogue would look like: $ RUN $ZAP ZAP>@TFEA.ZAP ZAP will print several numbers as it applies the correction and then exit. After you reboot the system, the correction will be in place and the TFEA$ directive will work as documented. The correction will also take effect on all diskless workstations in a PRO/Cluster after the workstation is rebooted. The correction file is as follows: Lb:[Zzsys]Pos.Sys/Ab (or Lb:[Zzsys]Posfs.Sys/Ab) 200+3:200+120000-120000;0R 213+3:000+126572-120000;1R 0,320+330/ 053332V Q+100000 1,72/ 005742V 240 1,124/ 000004V Q-2 1,132/ 000006V Q-2 1,140/ 000022V Q-2 X  ================================================================================ Note 10.0 Printed circuit design software on a PRO? No replies EISNER::JOHNSON "Sharon Linnea Johnson" 15 lines 22-JUL-1987 20:27 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know of any printed circuit design software which runs on a PRO and where to get it? Thanks in advance, Sharon Johnson %Division of Epidemiology (University of Minnesota) Stadium Gate 27 611 Beacon Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 (612) 624-9479 Bitnet: SHARON@SIMVAX  ================================================================================ Note 11.0 Faster Fortran 77 Compiles 1 reply EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 99 lines 26-JUL-1987 03:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is an article I am writing for the DECUS PC Sig newsletter. It describes a patch to the Tool Kit Fortran 77 compiler that improves the compile speed quite a bit, particularly for large programs. If you use Fortran 77 and would like a faster compiler, read on, this Bud's for you. Brought to you through the miracles of superior Klingon technology..... Jerry ____________________________________________________________________ Faster Compiles with PRO/Tool Kit Fortran-77 Jerry Ethington, Prolifix, Inc., Frankfort, KY PRO/Tool Kit Fortran 77 version 5.0 is a pre-packaged version of the PDP-11 Fortran 77 product. The compiler is supplied as a task image instead of an object library and task build command files, so Pro developers do not have the opportunity to tune the compiler parameters for improved performance or different default switches. Although in general the supplied compiler defaults are indeed quite reasonable, there is one glaring problem that causes compiles to take much longer than necessary on Pro systems. If you want the Fortran 77 compiler to run MUCH faster on your Pro, read on. The guilty culprit is the task extension for the compiler itself. The compiler uses any available task extension it is installed with as memory for symbol table storage when compiling your source program. The default on PDP-11 Fortran 77, and the setting the Tool Kit Fortran 77 compiler was linked with, is to allocate 8 pages (4 kilobytes) of memory for symbol table storage. If your program is large enough to need more symbol table storage than this (hint - most programs ARE bigger than this), then the compiler implements a software virtual memory system, "paging" the symbol table to a work file on disk during compilation. Clearly, once your program has overflowed the available memory and the compiler begins using a disk work file, the compile speed drops off dramatically. On PDP-11 Fortran 77, the setting for this parameter is a trade off between the compile speed and the increased memory used by the compiler. On old PDP-11 systems with a very limited amount of memory, the default setting was a reasonable compromise, resulting in a compiler using about 46 kilobytes of memory - on multiuser systems with no more than 256 kilobytes of memory available, such as an 11/34, this was about as much memory as one dared use for the compiler. On more modern PDP-11 systems, with far larger amounts of memory, it is entirely reasonable to use the entire 64 kilobytes of address space available to the compiler in order to improve compile speeds. On Professionals, which are usually single user systems and have at least 512 kilobytes of memory standard, it is also reasonable to maximize the amount of memory the compiler uses for symbol table storage in order to improve compile speeds. The following patch to the Fortran 77 compiler itself, applied with our good friend ZAP from the Pro/Tool Kit, will increase the task extension so that the maximum amount of memory possible will be used for symbol table space, greatly reducing the use of the disk work file during compiles. This will result in a compiler using 64 kilobytes of memory during compiles. On P/OS version 3.0 and later systems, you will need to be logged in to a privileged account and, on Pro/Cluster systems, you will need to be logged in on the file server itself instead of on a workstation. On systems before version 3.0, you will need to enter the Tool Kit application and type the command "SHOW LOGICAL APPL$DIR" to find the directory where the Fortran 77 compiler is stored. Create the following command file with your favorite editor, such as EDT: LB:[ZZPRODCL]PF7.TSK/AB (For pre-V3.0 systems, the directory will be different - use the directory shown from the SHOW LOGICAL command above) 1:352/ 000100V 561 X To apply the patch, run the Tool Kit application. Type the command "RUN $ZAP", and then enter the name of the command file you just created as an indirect command file. For example, if you created the command file with the name F77.ZAP, the commands would be: $ RUN $ZAP ZAP>@F77.ZAP The patch will take effect the next time you enter the Tool Kit application or reboot. Symbol table memory is increased from 8 pages to 46 pages, an almost six fold increase. The effect this has on compiling a large program is startling. On my Pro 380 development system, one particularly large program took 29 minutes 51 seconds to compile before. After applying the patch, compile time was cut to 12 minutes 10 seconds, 2 1/2 times faster. On small programs, the improvement will not be as dramatic, but there should be a noticeable improvement on almost any program. A new release of Tool Kit Fortran 77, version 5.2, should be becoming available at about the time this article is published. Owners of the current 5.0 version of Fortran 77 will be able to buy an upgrade to the new version at a cost much less than the full price of the compiler. I do not know whether or not this problem will exist in the new release, but I will publish a follow up article at a later date in the PC Sig newsletter to provide a new patch for the 5.2 compiler if necessary. ================================================================================ Note 11.1 Faster Fortran 77 Compiles 1 of 1 EISNER::ROECKEL 11 lines 22-AUG-1987 15:38 -< Thanks a million >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WOW !!!!! and WOW again !!!! You are an absolute lifesaver !!! I applied the fix you specified to my FORTRAN77 compiler, and the thing performs at lightning speed !! You really have saved me a bunch of time --- Thanks a million !!! Bruce (a new PRO hacker)  ================================================================================ Note 12.0 Coming Soon to A Pro Near You No replies EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 19 lines 14-AUG-1987 05:17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, according to SDC the scheduled FCS (first customer ship) for P/OS V3.2 and Tool Kit V3.2 is August 21. The list didn't show the corresponding release of Pro/DECnet, V2.1 - I guess it will be delayed a few weeks or something. V3.2 adds some nice new DCL commands and features, like a catchall task (finally!), flying install of tasks in APPL$DIR, a customization process for small disk systems so you can delete P/OS features you don't use, a new Application Builder that finally builds V3 compatible .INB files, a cool new utility to find bad blocks on your disk and handle them, new device support (LA75, LN03+, RD32, RD53), and many little assorted odds and ends. (Sigh) time to get out the checkbook, and get ready to order them there upgrade licenses, folks.....or, for those of you going to the Fall 87 Decus in Anaheim, I expect kits will be available in the PSG (or whatever the *^%#@^&% they're calling themselves this week) bookstore at SUBSTANTIAL savings..... Jerry  ================================================================================ Note 13.0 DEC's support of the PRO 3 replies EISNER::ROECKEL 16 lines 21-AUG-1987 10:17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a newcomer to the PRO arena and would like to here more about DEC's position on support of the PRO. My department recently aquired five PRO-350's and a MicroVAX II, all tied together with DECnet. The system performs real well, and I have had a blast writing code on the PRO that access files all over the network. The reason I ask about support, is that we are about to purchase a multi-million dollar system from DEC (based on three VAX 8800's and 10-12 MicroVAX's) and the vendor is quoting the standard VAX console. Come to find out that the VAX console is a PRO-380 running P/OS !! I was excited about it at first, but now am wondering if we should request a 'cluster console' based on the MicroVAX. Any comments/suggestions???? -- Bruce ================================================================================ Note 13.1 DEC's support of the PRO 1 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 23 lines 22-AUG-1987 09:49 -< Down but NOT out >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The reason I ask about support, is that we are about to purchase > a multi-million dollar system from DEC (based on three VAX 8800's > and 10-12 MicroVAX's) and the vendor is quoting the standard VAX > console. Come to find out that the VAX console is a PRO-380 running > P/OS !! The reason for using a 380 or not really has NOTHING to do with PRO support. A more correct approach is how many console devices do you have room for? > I was excited about it at first, but now am wondering if > we should request a 'cluster console' based on the MicroVAX. Rumors abound regarding the life expectancy of the PRO. I anticipate a definitive announcement at Fall DECUS Symposium or around that time. In the meantime, the PRO continues to receive software updates from a small but active development team. In addition, there is STILL new activity in the third party arena both in software development as well as HARDWARE. You will have to look HARD to find it, but it is there. Gary ================================================================================ Note 13.2 DEC's support of the PRO 2 of 3 EISNER::ROECKEL 23 lines 22-AUG-1987 15:49 -< Setting me straight >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you Gary for setting me straight. I guess you are correct about making a decision on space instead of support. I am sure DEC won't drop support of the VAX consoles!!! It's good to here that there is still some activity out there in the third party world. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to purchase much new software/hardware for the PRO's. (the money just isn't around!!) My only concern would be that DEC will still maintain the equipment --- and maybe thats were I am getting 'support' confused. I guess when everyone talks about 'support', they must be refering to software updates/enhancements, etc. I also own a Rainbow-100A and hear alot of moans and groans about DEC support. Again, I am not in any position to purchase anything for my PC, so I don't let the 'lack-of-support' bother me too much. I enjoy writing software and have developed all my own programs for both the Rainbow (at home) and the PRO-350's (at work.) Thanks for the REPLY!!! I am new to all of this fancy conferencing, and am realy getting alot out of it. I think all of those people involved in setting up this system should get a big THANKS!! Bruce :-) ================================================================================ Note 13.3 DEC's support of the PRO 3 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 16 lines 23-AUG-1987 08:31 -< Hardware support vs. Softare Support >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > It's good to here that there is still some activity out there in > the third party world. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to > purchase much new software/hardware for the PRO's. (the money just > isn't around!!) My only concern would be that DEC will still maintain > the equipment --- and maybe thats were I am getting 'support' confused. DEC's offcial HARDWARE support position is "We will stock parts and cover repairs for 10 years after the announcemen of a "retirement" of a product. I have seen NOTHING that would lead me to believe anything else. In fact, we have a BUNCH of DX-11 equipment (PDP-11 to IBM communications stuff) that was discontinued 15 years ago. We can STILL get it repaired at the local DEC service center. They no longer allow us to have it on service contract, but will do "time & materials" repairs for us. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 14.0 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 8 replies EISNER::ROECKEL 20 lines 24-AUG-1987 09:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I need some help tracking down something I read in the PDP-11 FORTRAN77 OTS reference manual supplied with the PRO Fortran. Manual is Order # AA-V195A-TK Title is as stated above Chapter 9 - Error Processing and Execution Control Section 9.5 - User Interfacing to Terminal Message Output This section talks about a subroutine called MSG that is suppose to output a single line to the terminal. When I attempt to utilize this routine on the PRO, I get an unresolved external reference during LINK. Does anyone know what library this is in??? I am assuming that this routine is what MAIL uses to issue the 'new mail' message to the screen, correct?? I want to do something exactly like this with a program that will run in background on the machine. Can anyone lend a hand with this one?? Thanks Bruce ================================================================================ Note 14.1 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 1 of 8 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 14 lines 24-AUG-1987 11:26 -< Not Supported >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I need some help tracking down something I read in the PDP-11 FORTRAN77 > OTS reference manual supplied with the PRO Fortran. > This section talks about a subroutine called MSG that is suppose > to output a single line to the terminal. Just above the program example is a little more info. The reference is resolved by a call to the $ERRLG routine. Normally, this is in SYSLIB. BUT, PROs have no error logging facility available. Hence, the module is not IN SYSLIB. You might try importing the module from an RSX system, but the PRO doesn't have it. Gary ================================================================================ Note 14.2 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 2 of 8 EISNER::ROECKEL 11 lines 24-AUG-1987 16:56 -< Then how does MAIL do it?? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the PRO does not support this routine, how does the DECnet MAIL utility send its message to the terminal? It's such a nice feature, and I would love to utilize the same logic in some of my own programs. By the way, as soon as I figure out how to move data around in EVE, I will be able to create references like you'all do !! It only takes time !!! :-) Bruce ================================================================================ Note 14.3 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 3 of 8 EISNER::FRISBIE "Alan E. Frisbie" 9 lines 25-AUG-1987 01:20 -< MSG and $ERRLG >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This section talks about a subroutine called MSG that is suppose >> to output a single line to the terminal. The MSG subroutine that is referenced is the eight lines of MACRO-11 code in the example on that page. You are expected to include this code yourself. It in turn calls $ERRLG, which is alleged to be missing on the PRO. Alan ================================================================================ Note 14.4 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 4 of 8 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 15 lines 26-AUG-1987 12:53 -< 'Fess UP! >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > If the PRO does not support this routine, how does the DECnet MAIL > utility send its message to the terminal? I don't know. I assume that it uses something that is part of DECnet. > By the way, as soon as I figure out how to move data around in EVE, > I will be able to create references like you'all do !! It only > takes time !!! :-) EVE? References??? What do you mean????? I have heard hints of uploads, but I currently type all my entries in via EDT. What are YOU planning? Gary ================================================================================ Note 14.5 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 5 of 8 EISNER::ROECKEL 32 lines 27-AUG-1987 13:47 -< EVE or EDT??? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > EVE? References??? What do you mean????? I have heard hints of > uploads, but I currently type all my entries in via EDT. What are > YOU planning? What I mean by references is how you extract verbage from the note you are REPLYing to and place ">" signs in front of it. As you can see, I just figured it out !! All it takes is a little light reading on my part :-) By the way, how did you get EDT?? I followed the instructions on setting the EVE keypad to emulate EDT, but I am still in EVE !! > I don't know. I assume that it uses something that is part of DECnet. Does anyone else know?? I must say I don't agree with Gary on his assumption. MAIL is a program that executes on the PRO and receives or sends mail to other nodes (PRO's or VAX's) on our network. When the MAIL utility receives mail and places it my hard disk, a message is generated and displayed on my terminal. The nice thing about this is that no matter what program I am running under P/OS (PROSE, 20/20 Spreadsheet, PRO/Comm, etc.) this message will automatically appear on line 24 of the screen !!! As a matter of fact, as I am writing this REPLY in notes, MAIL just informed me I have received something new. The format of the message generated agrees with the description given in the FORTRAN77 manual --- the name of the program, followed by a single line message. What mail puts out is: MAIL - New mail has been recived on node VARS Any ideas anyone ??? ================================================================================ Note 14.6 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 6 of 8 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 26 lines 28-AUG-1987 11:34 -< Is THIS more convincing? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > . . .light reading on my part :-) By the way, how did you get EDT?? > I followed the instructions on setting the EVE keypad to emulate EDT, > but I am still in EVE !! I had the same touble. Here is the way to do it: Issue the command: SET PROFILE/EDITOR=(EDT,CALLABLE) That should do it for you. >> > I don't know. I assume that it uses something that is part of DECnet. > Does anyone else know?? I must say I don't agree with Gary on his > assumption. MAIL is a program that executes on the PRO and receives > or sends mail to other nodes (PRO's or VAX's) on our network. When > I don't know. I assume that it uses something that is part of DECnet. I made that statement based on my own two systems. DECnet is not installed on either of them. AND, I have never seen a message appear on line 24 from some source besides a program that I wrote myself. I therefore connected your MAIL message to DECnet . . . Gary ================================================================================ Note 14.7 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 7 of 8 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 15 lines 30-AUG-1987 00:08 -< Mail Messages >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have DECnet installed on my systems, too. I suspect Mail (and Phone for that matter) are just performing QIOs to output their message to the terminal. Some of the QIO subfunctions that would be useful to a program attempting to output messages like this (all of which are documented in the P/OS system reference manual), are write with breakthrough, restore cursor, and terminal independent cursor positioning. I suspect Mail and phone use write with breakthrough, so they can interrupt output from other programs; terminal independent cursor positioning to place the cursor on line 24, column 1; and restore cursor, so the system will output the message and then move the cursor back to where it was before the message interrupted it. Read the chapter on the terminal driver in system reference; the whole thing is well documented in there. Jerry ================================================================================ Note 14.8 Ever heard of CALL MSG ??? 8 of 8 EISNER::DELARISCH 16 lines 31-AUG-1987 15:09 -< Yes, but what about EDT??? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> < Note 14.7 by EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" > >> -< Mail Messages >- >> >> I suspect Mail and phone use write with >> breakthrough, so they can interrupt output from other programs; >> terminal independent cursor positioning to place the cursor on line >> 24, column 1; and restore cursor, so the system will output the >> message and then move the cursor back to where it was before the >> message interrupted it. Read the chapter on the terminal driver >> in system reference; the whole thing is well documented in there. Maybe, but EDT does its own internal cursor positioning (I got bit bad with this one!) instead of using the system service calls that the underlying O/S provides (for O/S independence I guess :-{ ). -Arnold  ================================================================================ Note 15.0 Macro PSECT Names No replies EISNER::SACHS 24 lines 10-SEP-1987 14:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I recently experienced a problem that took me several days to solve. I thought I'd relate it here for the benefit of others who may have experienced weird run-time problems. If you write MACRO subroutines, you should give the .PSECTs different names, as the linker concatenates *identically named* .PSECTions without regard to even/odd address placement. This can result in randomly operating subroutines and bomb-outs (e.g., odd-address traps, illegal memory access violations). You can even play Russian roulette with your subroutines just by changing their listed order in the .ODL file. This problem had cropped up recently, and it involved MACRO sub- routines (usually linked to FORTRAN or PASCAL programs) that I have been using for the past two years. They all had no declared .PSECT names (in which case, I believe, the default .BLK. is then used). I guess most of those old routines were coincidentally of even-byte lengths, and I just now happened to write some odd-length stuff. It was a poser in any case. P.S. The linker always starts a uniquely named PSECT at an even address.  ================================================================================ Note 16.0 PRO Device Drivers 2 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 1 line 23-SEP-1987 19:48 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This topic is for the discussion of PRO device drivers. ================================================================================ Note 16.1 PRO Device Drivers 1 of 2 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 5 lines 23-SEP-1987 19:50 -< Is it a "File Server"? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When you do a DCL "$ SHOW DEVICES" command, one of the displayed items is the FS: device. Do you know what this device is? I can't find it documneted in any of my PRO docs. Gary ================================================================================ Note 16.2 PRO Device Drivers 2 of 2 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 21 lines 29-SEP-1987 22:37 -< FS: and Pro/Clusters >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FS0:-FS3: are used for diskless workstations in Pro/Clusters (or if you wish to avoid irritating Vax marketing Nazis who think they added the word CLUSTER to the Funk and Wagnalls, Pro/Server). The standard system image, which is used both on standalone systems and on diskless workstations, uses FS: - if you do a show device on a file server, which has a different system image, you won't see it. On standalone systems, startup processing places all FS: devices offline. If, however, you boot as a member of a cluster, FS0:-FS3: will allow you to access up to 4 disk devices on the file server. If the server has a winchester and two floppies, they will show up on every workstation in the cluster as FS0:-FS2:. Through the magic of concealed devices and cool V3 logical names, all the software is fooled into thinking they are local disk devices so nothing breaks. On standalone systems, FS: is always offline - the only penalty of using the same system image for workstations and standalone systems is standalone systems will have a few hundred words less primary pool, which on V3 systems is no problem anyway. Jerry  ================================================================================ Note 17.0 New Releases of Pro Software 12 replies EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 12 lines 29-SEP-1987 23:29 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P/OS V3.2, Pro/Tool Kit V3.2, and Pro/DECnet V2.1 have all been released. I actually have received SDC copies of P/OS V3.2 and Pro/DECnet V2.1 in my hot little hands; Pro/Tool Kit was back ordered, but should be here any day. I have installed P/OS and Pro/DECnet already - I think you will like some of the new features in them. Since I am leaving on a two week vacation at 8 in the morning, I don't think I'll stay up all night writing this stuff up, but when I get back I'll post more info on the new stuff - maybe Tool Kit will show up by then too. Get them checkbooks and Master Cards out, folks - it's that time again..... Jerry ================================================================================ Note 17.1 New Releases of Pro Software 1 of 12 EISNER::HASSINGER "Bob Hassinger" 1 line 30-SEP-1987 02:48 -< Please make entries in LATEST... too. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Note 17.2 New Releases of Pro Software 2 of 12 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 5 lines 11-OCT-1987 09:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Killeen's note in the HARDWARE conferecne referenced a "Product" called PRO TOOLKIT EMERGENCY SUB. Do you know what that is? Gary ================================================================================ Note 17.3 New Releases of Pro Software 3 of 12 EISNER::KILLEEN "Jeff Killeen" 4 lines 11-OCT-1987 10:16 -< WHICH NOTE >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jeff Killeen's note in the HARDWARE conferecne referenced a WHICH NOTE? ================================================================================ Note 17.4 New Releases of Pro Software 4 of 12 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 40 lines 12-OCT-1987 09:57 -< CAUTION: Brain Muddled >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Jeff Killeen's note in the HARDWARE conferecne referenced a > WHICH NOTE? My mistake. The note is actually in the LATEST_RELEASE_INFO confernece as: ================================================================================ Note 58.6 FCS SCHEDULE 6 of 6 EISNER::KILLEEN "Jeff Killeen" 79 lines 10-OCT-1987 15:07 -< FY88 #12 >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REMEMBER THIS IS *NOT* A GUARANTEED SCHEDULE!!! .___.___.___.___.___.___.___. ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | N e w s !___!___!___!___!___!___!___! SCHEDULED FCS DATES FY'88 #12 - 17-September-1987 FY'88 #12 SCHEDULED FCS DATES SCHEDULED PRODUCT/VERSION Q # FCS DATE SPD # --------------- --- --------- ----- . . . . *MICROPOWER/PASCAL QY029 18 SEP 87 18.24.06 U/RSX V2.4 *MICROPOWER/PASCAL-VMS V2.4 Q*029 18 SEP 87 26.24.09 *PRO/TOOL KIT EMERGENCY SUB QBA14 18 SEP 87 40.19.XX ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ QBE14 Sorry for the confusion. THIS is the entry I was referring to. Gary ================================================================================ Note 17.5 New Releases of Pro Software 5 of 12 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 10 lines 15-OCT-1987 23:53 -< Emergency Sub?!?!?! >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that "emergency sub" business is the indication that, yet again, SDC has screwed up the duplication of Tool Kit and actually shipped some bogus Tool Kit 3.2 copies. They are getting their #&%*&^#@ together and should be shipping the correct stuff about any day now. I still haven't received my 3.2 Tool Kit; guess that saves me the aggravation of getting a broke one. I have received P/OS 3.2 and PRO/DECnet V2.1; you CAN use Tool Kit 3.0 with them, so I can limp along until the new Tool Kit ships. Jerry ================================================================================ Note 17.6 New Releases of Pro Software 6 of 12 EISNER::ROECKEL 18 lines 18-NOV-1988 14:28 -< P/OS V3.2 up and running >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have just recently received updates to the following PRO software: P/OS HD V3.2 PRO/DECnet V2.1 PRO/Communications V3.1 PRO/ToolKit V3.2 PRO/TK F77 V5.2 Synery Window Manager V2.1 It's been up and running for about a week now, and everything seems to be just fine. Lucky for me that I screemed loud enough to get DEC to ship it all *FREE*, even though our Maintenance Contract was signed one month AFTER the announced releases. I realy enjoy the GIDIS to SIXEL converter -- now I can send my PRO 20/20 plots and PROSE PLUS drawings to the LN03+ !! Bruce ================================================================================ Note 17.7 New Releases of Pro Software 7 of 12 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 14 lines 19-NOV-1988 14:16 -< Almost Current >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have just recently received updates to the following PRO software: > P/OS HD V3.2 > PRO/DECnet V2.1 > PRO/Communications V3.1 > PRO/ToolKit V3.2 >>>>> PRO/TK F77 V5.2 > Synery Window Manager V2.1 Well, you almost made the "Most-Up-To-Date" list. Had you gotten PRO/TK F77 v5.3, then you would have it all. Gary ================================================================================ Note 17.8 New Releases of Pro Software 8 of 12 EISNER::ROECKEL 19 lines 25-NOV-1988 13:04 -< Not enough APR's ?? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Well, you almost made the "Most-Up-To-Date" list. Had you gotten > PRO/TK F77 v5.3, then you would have it all. Interesting. I took another look at the floppy and it sure does say F77 V5.2 On another subject --- I have ran into a problem since the upgrade. When I enter the ttolkit, I get an error message when trying to install F77. It says: INS -- Not enough APR's for task image. This seems to have shown up AFTER I installed the Regis-to-GIDIS and GIDIS-to-Sixel conversion programs. What is an APR? How can I fix this problem? Thanks ! Bruce ================================================================================ Note 17.9 New Releases of Pro Software 9 of 12 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 30 lines 25-NOV-1988 14:03 -< Translation: Buy a VAX :-} >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An APR is an Active Page Register, part of the memory management hardware. Essentially, these map your logical (hesitating to use the word "virtual") address space to physical memory. On a 350, there are 8 of them, each of which can map up to 8Kb of memory into your 64Kb address space. Ordinarily one gets this problem when one has written software that needs more than 8 distinct memory segments, for whatever reason (assuming a Pro 350, which has 8 APRs). It's a bit surprising to see it coming from a DEC product. The only explanations I can come up with are: (a) the version of F77 that you have is intended for a 380 (which is a separate-I-and-D-space machine and therefore can run larger programs, and has 8 instruction-space and 8 data-space APRs -- though I have *no* idea if any DEC software *actually* makes use of the hardware capabilities, never having owned a 380); (b) Somehow, installing one of the two conversion programs you mentioned increases the size of some shared memory region, such as a resident library, so that it takes more APRs than it used to, and more than F77 can give it. De-install the conversion programs and see what that buys you. Then you can re-install them, one at a time, till it breaks; and, further, you can watch the sizes of the regions and see which one is at fault. Not that there's likely to be a user-installable fix, you understand... ================================================================================ Note 17.10 New Releases of Pro Software 10 of 12 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 27 lines 27-NOV-1988 11:34 -< Yes, there ARE F77 v5.2 Problems >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > When I enter the ttolkit, I get an error message when trying to > install F77. It says: > INS -- Not enough APR's for task image. > This seems to have shown up AFTER I installed the Regis-to-GIDIS > and GIDIS-to-Sixel conversion programs. I haven't seen this problem, but there were some others in the v5.2 version of Fortran. If you have back issues of the Newsletters, check out the May '88 issue. The first article in the PC section details some compatibility problems with programs built from the v5.2 compiler. > (a) the version of F77 that you have is intended for a 380 (which > is a separate-I-and-D-space machine and therefore can run larger > programs, and has 8 instruction-space and 8 data-space APRs -- though > I have *no* idea if any DEC software *actually* makes use of the > hardware capabilities, never having owned a 380); Bill's assessment of the PRO 380 hardware is slightly misleading. I and D space on the PRO (ANY model) was never implemented, so you can rule out any hardware dependency as the root of your problem. There ARE some subtle differences between the 325/350 and the 380, but having both, I have found NO application, complier, product, etc. that won't work on either the F11 350 or the J11 380. Gary ================================================================================ Note 17.11 New Releases of Pro Software 11 of 12 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 29 lines 27-NOV-1988 18:06 -< But the book says... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I and D > space on the PRO (ANY model) was never implemented, so you can rule > out any hardware dependency as the root of your problem. For the record... I'm perfectly prepared to believe your conclusion, but I have some difficulty with the premise {grin}. The hardware documentation I have for the 380 states that I&D space does indeed exist on the 380. (See Pro 300 Series Technical Manual, Vol. 1, EK-PC300-V1-001, p. 6-36, for one place.) I am fully prepared to believe that P/OS has never implemented I & D space, and I allowed for that possibility in my reply, but it sure looks to me like the hardware has it. Indeed, I can't think of a reason why the hardware *wouldn't* have it, since it's a J11 chip and the memory management hardware is on the chip. The answer is of a little more than idle curiosity (though not much) since it goes to the question of whether non-P/OS operating systems can run separate I&D on a 380, if they choose to. It may well have nothing to do with the original question, though. Can anyone confirm that I&D is, or is not, available on the 380 to software (including operating system software) that chooses to use it? ================================================================================ Note 17.12 New Releases of Pro Software 12 of 12 EISNER::ROECKEL 25 lines 19-DEC-1988 09:11 -< Place foot in mouth ... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The only explanations I can come up with are: > > (a) the version of F77 that you have is intended for a 380 (which > is a separate-I-and-D-space machine and therefore can run larger > programs, and has 8 instruction-space and 8 data-space APRs -- though > I have *no* idea if any DEC software *actually* makes use of the > hardware capabilities, never having owned a 380); > > (b) Somehow, installing one of the two conversion programs you > mentioned increases the size of some shared memory region, such > as a resident library, so that it takes more APRs than it used to, > and more than F77 can give it. > Well, the problem ended up to be my own doing. I was stupid enough to try and ZAP the latest version of the Fortran compiler with the fixes that made the old version run at lightning speeds. Well, after I re-loaded the compiler, everything worked O.K. (Thats what I get for not thinking before acting!!) Does anyone know if the new version of the Fortran compiler can, or needs to be improved in the area of speed?  ================================================================================ Note 18.0 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 7 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 19 lines 3-NOV-1987 10:01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I received a letter from a user who told me about his experiences with a "non-standard" disk. He purchased a CMI 6640 (40 mb) disk from the pages of the Computer Shopper, installed it (P/OS v2) and it loaded! I checked the Computer Shopper and found only used drives, but the price was right: $250. My user asks a question regarding his controller: "My controller card has the following ROMs on it: R1:014B2 R2:013B2 R3:021B2. From Tom Hintz's submission in the July '87 newsletter, I couldn't figure out what Rev level it was since R3 with 021B2 was not listed. Do you know what Rev level my controller is?" I don't know although I suspect that he is at Rev H1. Do YOU know? Gary ================================================================================ Note 18.1 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 1 of 7 EISNER::BAISLEY "Wayne E. Baisley" 12 lines 21-JUN-1988 13:35 -< A hack for a bigger pack ? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I received a letter from a user who told me about his experiences > with a "non-standard" disk. He purchased a CMI 6640 (40 mb) disk > from the pages of the Computer Shopper, installed it (P/OS v2) > and it loaded! I checked the Computer Shopper and found only used > drives, but the price was right: $250. A question, since I'm looking into replacing my RD51 with something bigger, faster and cheaper (than DEC's offerings, anyway): Has anybody figured out how to brainwash V2.0/V2.0A to use geometries other than RD50/51/52's ? It doesn't need to be anything fancy like autosizing. A simple ZAP with the right numbers would do. ================================================================================ Note 18.2 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 2 of 7 EISNER::BAISLEY "Wayne E. Baisley" 12 lines 22-JUN-1988 08:14 -< It may be Rev. C0, and another variation >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "My controller card has the following ROMs on it: > R1:014B2 R2:013B2 R3:021B2. From Tom Hintz's submission > in the July '87 newsletter, I couldn't figure out what > Rev level it was since R3 with 021B2 was not listed. > Do you know what Rev level my controller is?" I have two controllers, one about 2 years old, the other ancient. The ancient board has the same ROMs listed above and is etched as Rev. C. The newer board has: R1:014B2 R2:013B2 R3:063B2 and a sticker with "414 H1" which I take to mean Rev. H1. I haven't tried anything larger than an RD51 yet with either, but I hope to soon. ================================================================================ Note 18.3 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 3 of 7 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 7 lines 22-JUN-1988 10:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The newer board has: R1:014B2 R2:013B2 R3:063B2 and a sticker with > "414 H1" which I take to mean Rev. H1. I haven't tried anything larger > than an RD51 yet with either, but I hope to soon. The "H1" board will handle the ST225 (20 mb) and probably the RD52 (33 mb) as well as the CMI drive. The other board is limited to the RD51 and RD50 (10 and 5 mb respectively). ================================================================================ Note 18.4 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 4 of 7 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 11 lines 22-JUN-1988 10:41 -< There's a solution out there in the fog, somewhere >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There _is_ a third-party company out there which has the patches required to V2.something (0 or 0A) to support the RD31/ST225 geometry and possibly others. Unfortunately I don't remember who they are. I think they're located in upstate New York, and they charge something like $25-50 for the thing, or include it if you buy the drive etc. from them. They advertise in a Rainbow-related publication that's put out by NewLine Software of Tiverton RI from time to time. If I come across my copy of the last issue (probably 3 months ago?) I'll post their name and number... ================================================================================ Note 18.5 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 5 of 7 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 11 lines 22-JUN-1988 10:42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Has anybody figured out how to brainwash V2.0/V2.0A to use geometries > other than RD50/51/52's ? It doesn't need to be anything fancy > like autosizing. A simple ZAP with the right numbers would do. In a word: "yes". For P/OS v2.0 (ONLY! not 2.0a) refer to the June '87 issue of the Newsletters (PC SIG) for a ZAP to P/OS v2 that allows an ST225 (20 mb) drive to be used at full capacity. Gary Rice PC SIG Newsletter Editor ================================================================================ Note 18.6 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 6 of 7 EISNER::ROECKEL 17 lines 27-JUN-1988 14:03 -< Heres one from California >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> There _is_ a third-party company out there which has the patches >> required to V2.something (0 or 0A) to support the RD31/ST225 geometry >> and possibly others. Unfortunately I don't remember who they are. I purchased an ST225 (20 Meg) drive from an outfit out of California. They also advertised PATCHES for version 2 of P/OS, although I did not need it (I am running V3.1) The company is: PRONTO SYSTEMS 1238 JOSEPHONE ST. BERKELEY CA 34703 Sorry, I have lost the phone number. Bruce ================================================================================ Note 18.7 Non_standard (non_DEC) disk drive 7 of 7 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 22 lines 1-JUL-1988 13:51 -< Address Correction Requested >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The company is: > PRONTO SYSTEMS > 1238 JOSEPHONE ST. > BERKELEY CA 34703 > Sorry, I have lost the phone number. Bruce You would have a hard time getting to them with this address. Zip 34703 is somewhere in the eastern half of the country. The actual address is PROTO SYSTEMS 1238 Josephine St. Berkley, CA 94703 The Phone # there is: (415)420-9579. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 19.0 PRO3XX disk/controller/firmware compatibility 1 reply EISNER::KOZAM 14 lines 19-NOV-1987 22:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have information about disk/controller/firmware compatibility? Specifically, are there different controllers for the RD50, RD51, RD52, RD53, RD31, RD32? Can I take out the RD50 and put in an RD52 and expect it to work? Do I need to change or upgrade the controller firmware? DEC's Add-On and Upgrade people had no idea about this. In fact, I don't think they even knew what firmware was (I guess firmware wasn't in their latest catalog, thus they figured it couldn't be too important :-). Thanks for any help you can offer. Marc Kozam ================================================================================ Note 19.1 PRO3XX disk/controller/firmware compatibility 1 of 1 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 32 lines 20-NOV-1987 10:36 -< A rose is a rose . . . >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Does anyone have information about disk/controller/firmware > compatibility? Specifically, are there different controllers for > the RD50, RD51, RD52, RD53, RD31, RD32? There is a very good article in the Newsletters about this sort of thing. It was published in the July '87 issue and written by Tom Hintz. Rather than repeat the article here, I will summarize it by adding some new info supplied to me by Jeff Slayback, DEC PRO Counterpart. He states: First released controller for RD50 ONLY had the following ROMS 013B2 014B2 015B2 ROM Change 013B2 014B2 021B2 ROM Change 013B2 014B2 063B2 (the 63 might have been 61 or 62, don't know for sure) LAST Change 071B2 072B2 073B2 The last change provided support for ALL disks that are available fro the PRO from the RD50 thru the RD53 as well as the RD31 and RD32. The only thing you need to worry about if you have the ROMS on your controller is the REV of P/OS necessary to support the disk. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 20.0 WPSPLUS -- LNO3 3 replies EISNER::HAHN 7 lines 20-NOV-1987 16:33 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I need information on how to control an LN03 in WPSPLUS on the PRO. Is it in the same manner as the DECMATE, that is to say use control on / off and indicate PRINTER FONT NORMAL font# size hw vs, where the font number is the SGR# - 9. Any help will be appreciated. Pierre ================================================================================ Note 20.1 WPSPLUS -- LNO3 1 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 12 lines 21-NOV-1987 08:30 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I need information on how to control an LN03 in WPSPLUS on the PRO. I don't use WPS (although I DO have it on my PRO), so I can't help with the WPS specific part of the question. However, P/OS didn't provide support for the LN03 until AFTER P/OS v3.1 was released. The DEC developers provided a patch that was distributed at Nashville to support the LN03. This patch is now incorporated into P/OS v3.2. So, if you don't have the patch and aren't running v3.2, the LN03 is going to be less than a printer and only slightly more than a boat anchor. Gary ================================================================================ Note 20.2 WPSPLUS -- LNO3 2 of 3 EISNER::LEFEBVRE "Kenneth LeFebvre" 22 lines 21-NOV-1987 15:25 -< WPS-PLUS Printer Control Codes >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For the short time that I had a PRO running WPS-PLUS, I tried to get my LN03 to work on it. It works fine as a standard printer, but obviously you are trying to get the nicer Laser-features out of it, huh? The best way I could get anything wa by using the table feature of WPS-PLUS. I am not intimately familiar with the system, so you will have to use your manual instead of my notes here, but basically what I did was to run the WPS-PLUS Installing/Configuration program to define special control codes in its control-code table. What happens is you define your own unique keyword to be used in a PRINT CONTROL Block. The definition simply assigns an ASCII sequence of characters to the keyword, so whenever you use that keyword in the PRINT CONTROL Block, the appropriate escape sequence (or whatever you defined) is sent to the printer. The place to look for documentation would be inthe installation guide, I think. I wish that I had those manualks still so that I could look up a page number for you. I am sure that you can find it easily enough, once you know what to look for. Ken ================================================================================ Note 20.3* WPSPLUS -- LNO3 3 of 3 EISNER::HASSINGER "Bob Hassinger" 1 line 23-NOV-1987 10:03 -< See OFFICE_AUTOMATION 31.* for more discussion... >- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  ================================================================================ Note 21.0 PRO/Toolkit 1 reply EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 12 lines 5-DEC-1987 10:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now that the new version of the PRO/Toolkit has been out for a while (v3.2), have you had any experience using it? Is there enough new stuff in it to warrant buying a copy? (I'm not on maintenance, so I am looking at a $500 price tag). The few bugs that I have found in the v3.0/3.1 version aren't serious enough (for me, at least) to justify upgrading to a new version based on "bug fixes" alone. Gary ================================================================================ Note 21.1 PRO/Toolkit 1 of 1 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 19 lines 27-JAN-1988 00:19 -< 3.2 Tool Kit >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since you already have a Tool Kit license, you are really looking at a fair bit less money - you can buy the -HZ option at something on the order of half price. Is there enough new stuff to justify buying it? Well, depends on what you are looking for. You can install Tool Kit 3.0/3.1 on P/OS 3.2 and, if you do so, you will get all the new DCL features like TDX and such. If the modest bug fixes in Tool Kit do not interest you, then all that is left is the new documentation (corrections and new DCL documentation, mostly) and the new microfiche listings, which now contain several new components like INSREM and SUMFBI. If you do install the old Tool Kit on 3.2, be sure to apply the updates from 3.1 after installation - several modules in SYSLIB are replaced by 3.1 to correct bugs in high level language interface and FMS. Jerry  ================================================================================ Note 22.0 RX33 on a PRO? 2 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 10 lines 30-JAN-1988 10:05 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For some time, I have been curious as to WHY the PRO is GEN'd for 4 floppy drives. Is is possible to add another RX50 controller and another RX50 box? Or better yet, Add an RX50 controller and plug in an RX33 box? Also, Virtual Microsystems is no longer selling the MS-DOS bridge that came with new ROMs for the RX50. (You know the ones that let the RX50 read IBM-PC format). Do you know if these ROMs are available from ANY other source? Gary ================================================================================ Note 22.1 RX33 on a PRO? 1 of 2 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 10 lines 30-JAN-1988 16:39 -< Remnent of the 325? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My guess as to why the PRO comes genned for 4 floppies is that I'm fairly certain I recall seeing an early PRO-325 equipped with 4 floppies (two in the normal location and two where the hard disk would go on a 350). I also recall a floppy disk only version of P/OS a log time ago (V1.7?) which wasn't much use because it didn't know about hard disks so it couldn't be used for thinks like hard disk backup. (Does anyone still run PCs on floppy disk only, changing diskettes everytime you change programs and/or files?) I -think- the PRO controller can handle 4 floppy drives, if you moved the hard disk out into an expander box. ================================================================================ Note 22.2 RX33 on a PRO? 2 of 2 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 27 lines 3-FEB-1988 00:15 -< Alas, poor RX50 Controller... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P/OS WILL support 4 floppies - I think the controller might be too dumb to handle both drives so you might need a second controller, but all the code is in place to handle it. It's actually not too stupid a thing to wish to do in a Pro/Cluster (read Pro/Server) environment where you don't really need a hard disk for much. Sadly the idiot RX50 controller will not push an RX33. I was told that the microprocessor is too slow to handle the transfer rate, since the RX33 does NOT do sector interleaving on 1.2 MB formatted floppies and would therefore have double the transfer rate - I'm not sure I buy this story, but that is what I was told. For sure, though, it would take a new ROM chip to tell the idiot controller how to handle switching densities and formatting and stuff, as well as new support code in the DZ: driver. The RX33 at 1.2 MB would actually make something near a nice backup device for Pros (speaking as someone who last week backed up his RD53 to 136 floppies - geez, I gotta order me one of the Cipher tape backup drives.....) The only way I know of getting the current (microcode level 10) rom chip for the RX50 controller is through field service. I don't know the part number to just order the thing - if you are on good terms with field circus, you can make them research it for you. All replacement RX50 controllers they dish out are SUPPOSED to have the level 10 rom - you might get them to replace the whole board if you are so inclined and they are agreeable. Jerry  ================================================================================ Note 23.0 Using Logical QIOs under P/OS v3 2 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 8 lines 15-MAR-1988 08:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever since P/OS v3 came out, I have been unable to issue Logical QIOs to the system disk successfully. The QIO ALWAYS fails with a "Privilege Violation" (even if the image is linked "/PR"). Is there anything I can do to allow this type of QIO to work successfully? Gary ================================================================================ Note 23.1 Using Logical QIOs under P/OS v3 1 of 2 EISNER::ETHINGTON "Superior Klingon Technology" 41 lines 17-MAR-1988 01:05 -< "This Is Not A Problem" >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, indoody - on P/OS V3.0 and later systems, you can only perform logical QIOs to a mounted disk (such as the system disk) IF you have set the bit T4.LIO in offset T4.STS of the task's TCB. If T4.LIO is NOT set, as you correctly noted, the exec poops on all requests, even those from a privileged task, with IE.PRI status. The following code fragment, developed through the miracles of superior Klingon technology, should do the job. This is for a task built as /PR:0, and using the SWST$ directive to enter system state. ; ; If we are on P/OS V3.0 or later, we must have the T4.LIO bit set in ; T4.STS in order to perform logical I/O to a mounted volume, or all ; IO.RLB/IO.WLB barf with IE.PRI errors. The use of executive vectoring ; should let this task function on P/OS V2.0 and later, and checking the ; presence of P/OS should let the task image function on P/OS or M+. ; Sub #16.*2,SP ; We need a 16 word buffer Mov Sp,R5 ; R5 => buffer Gtsk$S R5 ; Get task parameters Bcs 10$ ; If it barfed, just give up Cmp G.Tssy(R5),#11 ; Are we on P/OS today? Bne 10$ ; If not, skip all this Wimp$S #Gi.Fmk,R5,#9. ; Get system feature masks - since this ; subfunction was implemented beginning ; with P/OS V3.0, it will barf on older ; versions of P/OS Bcs 10$ ; If CS, must be older than V3.0 Swst$S #20$,#20$ ; Set bit in system state 10$: Add #16.*2,SP ; Fix up stack Return ; All done 20$: Mov @#$Veclc,R4 ;; R4 => $Stack Mov $Tktcb-$Stack(R4),R4 ;; R4 => our TCB Bis #T4.Lio,T.St4(R4) ;; Set logical I/O privilege bit Return ;; All done This should do the trick for you; if you have any problems, I should be able to help. Jerry ================================================================================ Note 23.2 Using Logical QIOs under P/OS v3 2 of 2 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 24 lines 30-MAY-1988 10:16 -< Crashing Code >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I tried this code fragment (after, of course turning it into a callable subroutine) and it DOES work in little test programs. It also works in one serious effort, namely the CVL program (Change Volume Label from one of the RSX SIG tapes). BUT . . . . It fails when I try to use it with REI, the file reincarnator program ALSO from the RSX SIG tapes. When I build REI from the original macro source, the program executes "normally" simply telling me that I can't access the hard disk by generating an error message. When I include a call to the subroutine that I made out of Jerry's code, it produces an odd address trap in most cases. I have experimented with the placement of the call and been able to change the contents of the registers and program counter (and also been able to CRASH the PRO by messing around with Jerry's code). HELP! Gary  ================================================================================ Note 24.0 Access to PDL 2 replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 9 lines 28-APR-1988 20:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Laboratory Data Products system MODEM phone number is once again answering the call with a friendly SQEEEEELLLL", but the Username (PDL) and Password (PDL) don't work. Has the PDL account been re-activated or is this just a co-incidence and I am actually getting a system that I have no business getting? Gary ================================================================================ Note 24.1 Access to PDL 1 of 2 EISNER::HERDELL 4 lines 28-NOV-1988 11:21 -< LDP Dialup?? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary, I have never heard of LDP dialup ... Was this ever resolved? Tnx ... ================================================================================ Note 24.2 Access to PDL 2 of 2 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 18 lines 29-NOV-1988 08:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have never heard of LDP dialup ... Was this ever resolved? Just a short update. At Fall Symposium, I stopped by the LDP booth on the exhibit floor and asked about the system. There were 5 people from DEC standing around. Only 1 of them had the vaguest idea about what I was referring to. When I mentioned the "Sysop's" name (Bernie Eiben), that drew a little better response. He is still with DEC, but working at a different location and a different group. They suggested that I call the main DEC switchboard in Maynard and ask for him. I haven't yet done that, however. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 25.0 POS Overlay Problem 3 replies EISNER::CROWELL "Shefth of the Fourth Order" 20 lines 14-JUL-1988 09:21 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a client at Rocky Flats, Colorado with a POS or F77 problem. POS Version 3.2 F77 Version 5.0 PRO-380 When program is overlayed he gets an odd-address trap, even though each of the subroutines in the overlays has been thoroughly wrung out and work if they're in the root. I don't have any more details at this time. Is there a known bug in F77 or the POS taskbuilder or overlay handler? Is it fixed in newer versions? Please leave info here, in MAIL, or call me at (916)756-3291. Thanks ================================================================================ Note 25.1 POS Overlay Problem 1 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 18 lines 15-JUL-1988 09:30 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >< Note 25.0 by EISNER::CROWELL "Shefth of the Fourth Order" > > -< POS Overlay Problem >- > When program is overlayed he gets an odd-address trap, even though > each of the subroutines in the overlays has been thoroughly wrung out > and work if they're in the root. I have seen the same thing. The offending routine is a menu routine supplied with P/OS Toolkit. The Odd Address Trap occurs the second time that the routine is called during the execution of the program. The only thing that I have been able to do to fix the problem is put the offending routine in the root. Nothing else that I could come up with did any good. > Is it fixed in newer versions? There will be no more versions of P/OS. V3.2 was the last. Gary ================================================================================ Note 25.2 POS Overlay Problem 2 of 3 EISNER::CROWELL "Shefth of the Fourth Order" 2 lines 15-JUL-1988 09:53 -< Thanks, but... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there a name associated with the offending routine? What do I tell my client to avoid? ================================================================================ Note 25.3 POS Overlay Problem 3 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 16 lines 16-JUL-1988 09:12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Is there a name associated with the offending routine? The call is part of the menu interface library (POSRES) and is the multiple choice dynamic menu routine (MMENU). I seem to recall that the DMENU routine (Single choice dynamic menu) has the same trouble. > What do I tell my client to avoid? I have successfully overlaid code that uses these routines, but success is random. The only way that I have had 100% reliability with the overlay problem is to put all calls to the offending routine(s) into the root segment of the overlay. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 26.0 06/06/88 DEC news: IVIS phase down No replies EISNER::TINKELMAN "Bob Tinkelman - CCA" 62 lines 4-AUG-1988 23:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .___.___.___.___.___.___.___. ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | PROD - N e w s !___!___!___!___!___!___!___! IVIS PRODUCTS TO BE PHASED DOWN - 06-June-1988 ******************************************************************************* o Place final orders by September 30, 1988 o Final systems ship December 30, 1988 IVIS products are being phased down in conjunction with the phase down of the Professional 380 systems. A follow-on product is not being planned since sufficient marketing demand has not been indicated to warrant further development. A small quantity of IVIS systems are still available and will be sold on a first-come, first- served basis, while quantities last. The following IVIS hardware and software products will be phased down. Place orders for these products no later than September 30, 1988, with delivery to occur no later than December 30, 1988. IVIS Hardware Order No. Description PC38V-AC IVIS System Canada/French PC38V-AE IVIS System UK/Ireland PC38V-AJ IVIS System Japan/Katakan PC38V-AQ IVIS System Canada/English PC38V-AR IVIS System Non-Spain PC38V-AU IVIS System Non-Portugal PC38V-AY IVIS System Japan/Hirigana PC38V-AZ IVIS System Australia/N2 PC38V-BC IVIS Touch Sys Canada/French PC38V-BE IVIS Touch Sys UK/Ireland PC38V-BJ IVIS Touch Sys Japan/Katakan PC38V-BQ IVIS Touch Sys Canada/English PC38V-BR IVIS Touch Sys Non-Spain PC38V-BU IVIS Touch Sys Non-Portugal PC38V-BY IVIS Touch Sys Japan/Hirigana PC38V-BZ IVIS Touch Sys Australia/N2 PC38V-CA PRO380/IVIS U.S., No Hard Disk PC38V-DA PRO380/IVIS Touch U.S., No Disk PC38V-EA IVIS System Arabic PC38V-FA IVIS Touch Arabic PC3VX-AA Sony/Pioneer IVIS CTL/SIG CBL IVIS Software Order No. Description QBA27-A3 PRO/Producer Tech Kit V1.6 QBA22-H3 IVIS System Software NOTE: IVIS application software was included with the Professional 300 Series product phase-down announcement. VAX/Producer, Q*040-xx, and VAX/Producer Interpreter, Q*041-xx, will continue to be available.  ================================================================================ Note 27.0 Running on Empty (batteries) 3 replies EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 24 lines 8-SEP-1988 20:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My PRO-350 has started to develop occasional memory lapses, in the form of forgetting the date. When I boot it up, it usually has the correct date and time, but once in a while it has the default date (somewhere in early 1982, for P/OS 2.0). I surmise that the Ni-Cd batteries that keep the clock alive with the power off are dying. It's been a while since I had my PRO open, but I remember a two AA cell size battery pack with a plug in cable. It also had on it, of course, a warning to replace it only with a genuine DEC part, and a part number. Before I spend a lot of money on a DEC replacement (if I can get one), does anyone have any experience replacing these with industry standard batteries? As someone who used to repair TV sets, I can't resist the comparison with the radio and TV sets which said "Replace only with genuine Capehart tubes" (or various other brands). Most of the companies didn't make their own tubes or other components, and there was no way to buy replacements: not even if you were an authorized repair depot. You used tubes and capacitors and whatever else you needed from any good quality supplier, unless it was something really unique like a tuner: and even then, there were alternative sources. (Also, does anyone know the part number? My PRO is ticked into a custom cabinet and it's a real pain to pull it out and lift the cover as I have to pull off all of the cables.) ================================================================================ Note 27.1 Running on Empty (batteries) 1 of 3 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 6 lines 8-SEP-1988 21:22 -< You won't believe this... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Pro pocket service guide lists the part number as 12-19245-00. My Self Maintenance Services catalogue lists that part at $19, orderable through DECdirect. Now, wasn't that easy? {grin} (I think that's the first time in about six months that I looked up the price for some part and (a) found it, and (b) decided it was affordable :-} ) ================================================================================ Note 27.2 Running on Empty (batteries) 2 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 22 lines 9-SEP-1988 08:45 -< Only for Hackers or TV-Repairmen >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > a two AA cell size battery pack with a plug in cable. It also had > on it, of course, a warning to replace it only with a genuine DEC > part, and a part number. Before I spend a lot of money on a DEC > replacement (if I can get one), does anyone have any experience > replacing these with industry standard batteries? I thought about doing the same thing. Here is why I didn't: 1) The 2 batteries are soldered to the wires that then go to the back of the PRO, requiring some melting and re-soldering of the non-battery components of the pack; 2) The batteries are rated at a weird voltage and I didn't think that I would be able to locate comparable units; However, Bill's price of $20 is a lot higher than I remember paying by dropping in at the service center and buying the part "over-the-counter". Granted, that was over 3 years ago, but I think I paid something like $7.00. Gary ================================================================================ Note 27.3 Running on Empty (batteries) 3 of 3 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 16 lines 20-SEP-1988 13:20 -< A solution: use the system more. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I thought about the problem for a while, and realized that I wasn't using my PRO much. Though I use it every evening (to log into DECUServe and CompuServe), I recently was using it for only a few minutes each day. I thought maybe I just didn't have it turned on enough to charge the batteries, so I've been leaving it turned on longer even if my work is completed. So far it hasn't forgotten the date since I started doing this. Maybe it's my PRO's way of telling me I'm not using it enough? By the way, obtaining NiCd batteries with solder tabs is no big trick. And it's impossible to have a NiCd battery with a non-standard voltage (though a pack with an unusual number of cells might not be an off-the-shelf item). But good AA size cells start at around $2.50 each (more for high capacity or rapid charge), so the DEC part might not be a bad buy after all.  ================================================================================ Note 28.0 POS Printer FormFeeds 3 replies EISNER::HERDELL 6 lines 28-NOV-1988 11:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a problem controlling all of the extra formfeeds the printer driver is throwing in when a dcl print command is issued. I have not yet found a way to control the FFs in V3.0..anybody solved this one? Tnx.. Richard ================================================================================ Note 28.1 POS Printer FormFeeds 1 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 15 lines 29-NOV-1988 08:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have a problem controlling all of the extra formfeeds the printer > driver is throwing in when a dcl print command is issued. I have > not yet found a way to control the FFs in V3.0..anybody solved this one? There were NUMEROUS problems with the P/OS V3.0 printer S/W. DEC's contrinuous answer to the FF problem, lost jobs problem, incompatible sequence problems, etc. was to ugrade to v3.1. Then after v3.1 came out, they decided to give the patches to the v3.1 print S/W to the public domain (and included the stuff with v3.2). If you can locate the v3.1 P/OS S/W, I can provide you with the v3.1 patches. Or better still, use v3.2. It is MUCH better than the v3.0 stuff that you have. Gary ================================================================================ Note 28.2 POS Printer FormFeeds 2 of 3 EISNER::HERDELL 9 lines 29-NOV-1988 16:22 -< 3.2 drivers on 3.0 >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary ... sure sounds like you are saying I need to upgrade to 3.2. Do you mean just upgrade my drivers or the complete kit. The driver upgrade is feasable if 3.2 drivers can be located but upgrading the complete system is not feasable anymore. I wonder when or if DEC will release the POS source so we can enhance Klingon Technology? Richard ================================================================================ Note 28.3 POS Printer FormFeeds 3 of 3 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 26 lines 30-NOV-1988 08:22 -< Sources? Maybe. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gary ... sure sounds like you are saying I need to upgrade to 3.2. > Do you mean just upgrade my drivers or the complete kit. The driver... The patch that I have can be applied to P/OS v3.1 systems ONLY. It was INCLUDED in v3.2 for you. Therefore, you need to be at v3.1 or better to take advantage of the fixes. > I wonder when or if DEC will release the POS source so we can enhance > Klingon Technology? I have talked extensively to Jeff Slayback (the PC SIG PRO Counterpart at DEC) about this issue. His response (ie: DEC's response) is: If the product doesn't conflict with other DEC product lines that are still being sold, then there is some chance that the sources will make it to the public domain. You can read that as: PRO/Sight Yes Synergy Yes P/OS NO! Languages NO! Toolkit NO! etc. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 29.0 Multiple OS PRO 4 replies EISNER::HERDELL 14 lines 28-NOV-1988 12:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have two hard disks with different OS's on them which I physically (remove from the cab) switch out of the system when I want to change the OS. One drive has Venix & the other POS 3.0. The last time I did this this, I didn't ground myself and I zapped my 3.0 drive & ended up doing a reload. Before I do a hardware hack on an electronic switch for these disk drives, I would like to know if anybody has already built one. By the way, in the world of 'Klingon' technology, what is the cost effective way to add hard drives to a PRO350? Tnx..Richard ================================================================================ Note 29.1 Multiple OS PRO 1 of 4 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 17 lines 29-NOV-1988 08:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > By the way, in the world of 'Klingon' technology, what is the cost effective > way to add hard drives to a PRO350? Our good friend from "Klingon Technology" is sadly no longer logging in to DECUServe. He decided that the benefit wasn't worth the cost. As for disk drives, How much disk capacity do you desire (up to a PRO maximum of 71 MB)? Depending on the answer, you will have a different matrix of S/W versions, patches, Controller card ROMs and vendors. However, these days, the most expensive (non DEC) drive that fills the bill fill run you under $1,000. Gary ================================================================================ Note 29.2 Multiple OS PRO 2 of 4 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 33 lines 29-NOV-1988 12:04 -< Some possibilities >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is theoretically possible to put a second bootable hard disk on a Pro... or for that matter just to put a second hard disk there, and boot it via an intermediate boot from the floppy. The Pro Expansion Box, or whatever it's called, provides a free-standing disk expansion unit into which you can add whatever supported disk you like. However, as far as DEC is concerned, it requires a separate controller. (Note that a single controller can in fact, from a hardware standpoint, support multiple drives -- DEC just doesn't support it, cabling being one of the issues I guess.) From my days digging into (and reverse assembling!) the Pro boot ROM, I recall that there is an address to which you can jump, with appropriate values in the registers (esp. R0), that tells the ROM to boot your Pro from a given "unit number". Hence you could write a suitably privileged P/OS program that loads R0 with the right stuff and then jumps to the appropriate ROM address, thereby booting your system from the other (Venix) disk... and vice-versa. Or, you could write a little standalone program and put it on an RX50 that would boot the Venix disk, again assuming it's on the expander box. The thought of doing any kind of mechanical switch-based trick to allow switching the two gives me mild chills. It is also possible (again theoretically), given a big enough disk, to create a big contiguous file under P/OS which happens to be "the Venix disk"... i.e. put both operating systems on the same drive, each "owning" part of the physical space. Again, a privileged P/OS program, or a standalone floppy, could boot Venix. I actually started down this road (using Idris, not Venix) but didn't have enough time to follow through (and "time" also equates to "market demand"). ================================================================================ Note 29.3 Multiple OS PRO 3 of 4 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 4 lines 29-NOV-1988 12:56 -< How about a second system? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Considering the current cost of used PRO-350s, have you considered that it might be cheaper to just buy a second unit? Especially if someone has a unit with a dead disk that you can slip your second disk into. ================================================================================ Note 29.4 Multiple OS PRO 4 of 4 EISNER::HERDELL 5 lines 29-NOV-1988 16:43 -< Good Stuff >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The idea of supporting two disk drives on one controller sounds more reasonable than an electronic switch .. I agree. I have no experience with an expander box, or even if I can pick one up reasonably. Creating two daisy-chained connectors sounds like a solvable problem....Tnx  ================================================================================ Note 30.0 MS-DOS on a PRO No replies EISNER::HERDELL 4 lines 29-NOV-1988 16:50 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is anybody using a MS-DOS daughter board in their PRO? If so, what is your opinion of it. Where did you get it? Richard  ================================================================================ Note 31.0 PRO HARDWARE 7 replies EISNER::PROVOST 1 line 30-NOV-1988 14:02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This TOPIC is for discussion of PRO hardware issues. ================================================================================ Note 31.1 PRO HARDWARE 1 of 7 EISNER::PROVOST 17 lines 30-NOV-1988 14:04 -< PRO MEMORY EXPANSION >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I HAVE ENTERED THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IN HARDWARE_HELP TOPIC 7. I repeat it here in case someone here has an answer. Given: 1 PRO-350 with 512K memory. Needed: More memory without sacraficing slots. I am told this can be done by changing chips on the mother board. There was an article on how to do this in a past SIG Newsletter. Can anyone point me more directly at the article? Alternatively, can you tell me what must be done? Thanks, Tom ================================================================================ Note 31.2 PRO HARDWARE 2 of 7 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 11 lines 30-NOV-1988 14:28 -< daughter board upgrade >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You do not change chips on the motherboard. There are two small memory daughter boards which contain 128k each. You can remove the 64k rams from these boards (carefully, with a soldering iron) and then put in 256k rams to make each board 512k each: you also solder in two wire jumpers on the board so that the CPU will recognize how much memory is on each board. I've done four: the first two I soldered in sockets and plugged in the rams (the safe and reccomended way) and the second two I soldered the rams directly on the boards (the not so safe way: I reccomend sockets). If you are good with a soldering iron, it's an easy upgrade: if not, let someone else do it, especially when you consider how much rams cost now. ================================================================================ Note 31.3 PRO HARDWARE 3 of 7 EISNER::KOZAM 7 lines 30-NOV-1988 21:43 -< See DEC Professional, September 1986 >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do-it-yourself PRO memory expansion was written up in the September, 1986 DEC Professional (PRO 350 Memory Expansion by Bruce M. Eteson, page 56). It includes pictures and detailed instructions (i.e. exactly which jumpers need to be soldered). If you can't find the issue, I can send a photocopy (only 3 pages long). ================================================================================ Note 31.4 PRO HARDWARE 4 of 7 EISNER::PROVOST 3 lines 1-DEC-1988 14:52 -< Thanks for the memory >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks! I have the article. Tom Provost ================================================================================ Note 31.5 PRO HARDWARE 5 of 7 EISNER::LEDERMAN "Bart Z. Lederman" 24 lines 12-JAN-1989 18:57 -< Getting disk/controller errors. Help? >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My PRO is having problems with the hard disk or controller. Occasionally when I start it up it fails to find the hard disk, and prompts me for a floppy. If I leave it alone or power off and on it will find the disk and boot. Once it boots the RMD display shows no errors, and installing and running the diagnostic utility shows no errors. Today it drew the picture of the system with the first slot highlighted, and the numbers 010013 000401 with the first 01 on the top line in reverse video, and prompted for a floppy. Naturally I put in the self staring diagnostics, which ran and found no errors. When I re-powered the system it booted without problems. I don't have full documentation for this system (bought it from Newman Computer). Can someone interpret what's going on? I'd like to try to figure out if it's the controller, or the disk, so I can determine what to do next. P.S.: I have P/OS V2.0 and Diagnostics V1.5 ================================================================================ Note 31.6 PRO HARDWARE 6 of 7 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 12 lines 12-JAN-1989 23:33 -< Probably flaky/dirty connections >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most frequent cause of this class of problems in my experience is a controller board, and/or drive cables, that need to be reseated. Take the beast apart, pull the controller, blow all the dust out (esp. the "zero-insertion-force" connector on the controller and the mother board. Similarly blow the dust off the drive cable connectors. Put everything back together. I have sometimes had to go through this charade 2 or 3 times before things become stable. (Fortunately a Pro is easy to use with its cover off!) If this doesn't help, try the cable connections at the drive, but I have most often found the controller connections to be at fault. ================================================================================ Note 31.7 PRO HARDWARE 7 of 7 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 11 lines 13-JAN-1989 13:21 -< Here's another Cable to look at >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -< Probably flaky/dirty connections >- Definitely a possibility. However, another problem that can cause this error is the power supply to Motherboard (and by extension: bus) cable. The cable can do a "meltdown" like the Micro PDP-11 problem that was described in HARDWARE_HELP. In early stages there are no visible symptoms, but in later stages, the cable begins to darken and will give off an odor. Gary  ================================================================================ Note 32.0 Task Segment Fault Aborts 2 replies EISNER::COOPER 11 lines 5-DEC-1988 20:15 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are having a problem with tasks aborting with a TKTN abort code of 2 (segment fault). The tasks that are aborting are doing alot of RMS file opens and closes. They work for awhile before aborting. The tasks are written in PRO/PASCAL (using the VMS Host toolkit). We are running P/OS V2.0a. Has anyone come across this and, if so, did you find a solution? Thanks, Steve ================================================================================ Note 32.1 Task Segment Fault Aborts 1 of 2 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 15 lines 5-DEC-1988 21:34 -< Could be RMS >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > We are having a problem with tasks aborting with a TKTN abort code of 2 > (segment fault). The tasks that are aborting are doing alot of RMS > file opens and closes. They work for awhile before aborting. I have seen what may be a related problem using PRO/FORTRAN. In a heavily overlaid task that opens and closes Indexed Sequential files with buffer sizes above 512 bytes, FORTRAN will return "No Buffer Room" after awhile. The only "fix" that the P/OS developers came up with was: "Increase the 'ACTFIL=nnn' value in the Taskbuild file" and/or "Increase the 'MAXBUF=nnn' value as well". This is tough in an overlaid program, as I'm sure you are aware. Gary ================================================================================ Note 32.2 Task Segment Fault Aborts 2 of 2 EISNER::COOPER "Steve Cooper" 12 lines 25-JAN-1989 19:20 -< Problem Solved >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I found the problem. Looking through the sources, I came across an old (1984) user action routine to clean up XABs after closing indexed, keyed files. Apparently, the P/OS close neglected to remove the XABs from the program's dynamic storage (the heap). There is one XAB allocated for each key. The UAR had some bugs that I fixed, but the heap was still getting used up. It turned out that P/OS was allocating 104(8) bytes for the XABs even though they are only 70(8) bytes long. I redefined the XAB for disposal and now everything works just fine. - Steve  ================================================================================ Note 33.0 Disappearing Files 3 replies EISNER::COOPER "Steve Cooper" 6 lines 23-JAN-1989 15:08 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone ever written a file under P/OS, closed it with a status of success, and then not have the file on disk? If so, did you ever find the reason? Thanks, Steve ================================================================================ Note 33.1 Disappearing Files 1 of 3 EISNER::MAYHEW "Bill Mayhew" 4 lines 23-JAN-1989 17:30 -< Hasn't happened to me, but one explanation... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a bit in the RMS FAB that says this is a marked-for-deletion file (FB$MKD), which will be deleted when the file is closed. What software are you using to write this file? ================================================================================ Note 33.2 Disappearing Files 2 of 3 EISNER::COOPER "Steve Cooper" 4 lines 25-JAN-1989 19:10 -< False Alarm >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oops! Turns out there is no problem here. I couldn't figure out why this was happening so I checked into log files that we keep and discovered that our users had led me astray. The files were not there because they were never actually sent. ================================================================================ Note 33.3 Disappearing Files 3 of 3 EISNER::KILLEEN "Jeff Killeen DECUServe Chair" 9 lines 25-JAN-1989 20:51 -< USER TRUST >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > discovered that our users had led me astray. The files were not What you trusted a user! 8-) My company supports about 1400 users at 80 plus sites and as I tell my staff..... Rule 1 - Humor the user but assume the error report is garbage Rule 2 - Refer to rule 1  ================================================================================ Note 34.0 TMS on Leased Lines 2 replies EISNER::COOPER "Steve Cooper" 6 lines 27-JAN-1989 12:43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone tried using TMS on a leased line? If so, do you have any pointers? We are trying to talk to our remote sites using better and faster modems, but the comm port is used for a leased line connection to meteorological towers. - Steve ================================================================================ Note 34.1 TMS on Leased Lines 1 of 2 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 10 lines 28-JAN-1989 09:15 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Has anyone tried using TMS on a leased line? If so, do you have... I haven't, but here is an observation: The TMS is a MODEM device capable of 1200 BAUD MAX. If you can only communicate at 1200 BAUD, does it make sense (economically) to lease a line if you can only drive it at that speed? Gary ================================================================================ Note 34.2 TMS on Leased Lines 2 of 2 EISNER::COOPER "Steve Cooper" 23 lines 1-FEB-1989 18:33 -< Even Worse Than 1200 >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The TMS is a MODEM device capable of 1200 BAUD MAX. If you can only > communicate at 1200 BAUD, does it make sense (economically) to lease > a line if you can only drive it at that speed? Currently, it's even worse than 1200. The modems in the towers are capable of 300 bps. The company that manufactures the meteorological towers is looking at 1200, but the price tag will probably be too high for some of our customers to bother to convert. The Pros that have towers are generally a mile or two from the tower. The software polls the tower for data every 15 minutes. I think it depends on the location whether they use an actual leased line or a long line with the modem as a "long-haul driver". The TMS unit is currently used to connect to us via dial-up while a standalone DEC modem is used for the dedicated line to the tower. What I would like to do is use the TMS unit for the tower so we could free up the comm port to allow higher speed (and better) modems to connect to us. I think it can be done using the IO.ORG (originate) function. I just won't have the time to try it for awhile so I was wondering if anyone else had done so. - Steve  ================================================================================ Note 35.0 PROporri No replies EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 97 lines 5-JUN-1989 07:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I received a letter from an avid PRO user this week. I have excerpted pieces of it and am posting those pieces here. There are MANY questions being posed. Please respond to any or many of them. Gary Is there any documentation on how to allocate more space for a PRO/SIGHT V1.0 work file? When an existing picture contains more objects than fit in the assigned buffer, only the last objects created can be selected as a group for edit! This restriction makes changes to a complex picture nearly impossible. Is a driver for any HP hard copy devices (laser, desk jet, color jet .etc) available to print/translate PRO/Sight .gid files? P/OS V3.0 cannot print SIGHT V1.0 .gid files properly on a DEC LN03 nor LA75 printers. An LA50 hard copy does not provide adequate picture quality. Public Domain SYM-4 software update applies "only to P/OS V3.1". Is there any help for a PRO owner stuck at P/OS V3.0? Is any part of the V3.1 software update distributed at the Spring '87 symposium adaptable to P/OS 3.000? Can the PRO Document VDM interpreter be applied to create a P/OS gidis+text file that is transportable to another DEC system for quality printing? When PRO/INSTL & MAINT V3.0 is updated on hard disk with PRO/TMS COMM TEST SERV V1.2, runtime errors and/or a program crash results. TMS is inhibited from normal operation until P/OS V3.0 is re-booted. TMS tests run properly from floppy with Maintenance-P/OS V2 but not V3.0. The reason for concern is a quick TMS verification run before going on line with a data base that charges by the minute! Also need definition of a "loop back" to include the cable up to the phone jack in a self test. It would seem reasonable that DEC should make the source code for maintenance software available so that PRO-TMS owners could update it to more current operating systems. Hardware theory of operation with component level documentation is necessary for self maintenance and to establish a better basis for software development. TMS has been "retired" but it should not be put to death before its useful life expires! Have all the source files for a spelling checker by Jef Hamilton (F85 DECUS) but have not been able to build task images that run under P/OS V3.0 even though all build errors have been "fixed". Is a cookbook available on how to convert from FCS to P/OS - PROF77 support? Has anyone been succesful in altering this spell checker application for P/OS? Has a converted version with source and build.cmd files been submitted to your library? Is the F-88 spell checker for RSX and RT-11 (directory [373,211]) a better program? Is it available from your library? Are source, documentation, and build files included? I are an engenier, and badly need any Computer Adided Communication help I can get. Now have four different task images of Glen Everhart's PortaCalc/AnalytiCalc running on P/OS V3.0, but none support optional keypad.cmd files. It is rather intimidating to wade through the vast amount of operating system specific information Mr. Everhard published, and try to sort out what portion applies to these four task images. I've been able to perform basic spreadsheet tasks, but have only trial and error means to define what capabilities the different .tsk images support. Would like a compatible database application from which AnalytiCalc can import data, but if keypad commands are not functional, import from foreign data files does not seem likely. Has anyone collected all the necessary F77 compatible source files, and devised a means to build AnalytiCalc from scratch, with all the bells and whistles, on a PRO3xx system? Maybe Glen Everhard would submit PRO specific source and build instructions to your Public Domain library! Maybe he also has modified, or created, a compatible database package to work on PRO's. I'm sure he would enjoy seeing a DECUS Newsletter announcment of his support for the PRO3xx in active retirement. Current DECUS library version of Portacalc/Analyticalc does not indicate P/OS is supported!??! Believe someone developed a means to run RT-11 from a P/OS hard disk. Do you have this tool in your library or do you know someone who uses it and is willing to part with a copy? I have RT-11 V5.1c and P/OS V3.0, PRO Communications V3.0, RT Basic & Fortran, P/OS Pascal V1.2 & Fortran V5.0, and PRO tool kit V3.0 delivered with a PC380 I bought recently. Have built some P/OS applications (at least Bonner Runoff works) and read enough of the Tool Kit manuals to be rather dangerous. Presently, have no experience with RT-11, but would like to switch-hit between the two operating systems, and learn enough to adapt DECUS RT-11 programs to the PRO3xx Public Domain. Maybe RT-11 is the best long term means to support a retired PRO3xx? Any cookbook available to give a non-computer-scientist some basic hints on program conversion between RT11 and P/OS? P/OS 3.0 supports multiple hard disks. Can P/OS be booted from one disk while RT-11 is bootable from another? Does anyone sell a hard disk interface card, a cable, and external disk box & power supply at a reasonable price? Has anyone documented PRO3xx external disk cable/connector requirements so one can use readily available non-DEC parts? Here are some additional Public Domain wish list items: Complete sources of Bonner Lab RUNOFF from RSX SIG Fall 1987 [332,12]. Believe this is the latest update version. Collection of the latest and greatest of DECUS C language system with full P/OS and/or RT-11 support. Kermit-11 updates and Kermit source for other operating systems that support the advanced features incorporated in Kermit-11 by Brian Nelson. An EDT clone that runs on RT-11  ================================================================================ Note 36.0 PRO Public Domain Software 1 reply EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 20 lines 14-AUG-1989 15:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About a year and a half ago, the PC SIG (principally Tom Hintz) organized a "final Hurrah" for the PRO. This took the form of collecting ALL of the known PD software that was specifically written for the PRO (as well as S/W that would be appropriate for the PRO but not specifically written for it) and build it into a tape. I am happy to say that the effort is concluded and I have a copy of the results. I will be formally "announcing" the tape in the November Newsletter, but I thought I would let you know here first. The tape is VMS Backup format (6250 BPI - 1/2"). Distribution plans are not yet firm, but I can make a limited number of copies if you would like one. The tape is organized into 3 save sets. Collectively, they occupy about 100,000 disk blocks. More details about the tape contents will be available if you request them. Gary ================================================================================ Note 36.1 PRO Public Domain Software 1 of 1 EISNER::RICE "Gary Rice" 47 lines 20-OCT-1989 09:35 -< DEC Offers PRO Software >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following "memo" appeared in my DCS account this morning: D E C U S - I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 19-Oct-1989 03:51pm EST From: Jeff Slayback SLAYBACK Dept: Symp. Counterparts TO: Thomas R. Hintz ( HINTZ ) TO: Gary Rice ( RICE ) Subject: PRO software to DECUS library Tom, Gary Took a trip to the DECUS office this morning and dropped off some software. Could one of you at the PC ROADMAP can give the news to the DECUS people? What I supplied was: P/OS V3.2 PRO/BASIC V1.4 PRO/COMM V3.1 PROSE PLUS V2.1 SYNERGY V2.1 SIGHT V1.1 TOOLKIT V3.1 INSTALLATION & MAINT V3.3 PRO/DECNET After talking with them this morning we may not offer PRO/COMM and PROSE PLUS as separate packages since they are part of SYNERGY. I will let you both know the outcome of that. I will write something up for the PC ROADMAP for one of you. I have a conflict and will be giving another session in the L&T area. See your both in Anaheim. Jeff As you can see, the PRO STILL has a few "cycles" left in it. Gary